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Thylacine inlay advice needed
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44974		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Thylacine inlay advice needed
I'm doing fairly complex inlay, for me anyway, and I'm at the point where I need to decide how much of the ebony head plate to route away. There are some large areas within the body that need to match the black of the head plate, and so my debate is: How much, if any of the negative spaces should I rout around, leaving the Ebony, also making fitting it in considerably more difficult, and second, what is the best way to fill the smaller negative spaces between the pearl? On some of the larger stripes, I could see cutting out pieces of Ebony to fit, then filling the gaps with CA and Ebony dust, or is there a better approach such as simply filling all the negative spaces with black epoxy? Your guidance on this is greatly appreciated. Image


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Greg B [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
This IMO really is a matter of artistic judgement. I don't see the point of trying to fill the black 'tiger' stripes in with ebony, other than to show off. I would use black epoxy. For the rest, my first thought is some gold or off white MOP flakes in epoxy. Duke of Pearl has them. As a Thylacine is supposed to be light brown other than the stripes, that would seem a decent compromise. Or, go for a more graphical look and fill everything with black.

Is that thylacine CNC cut?
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
We originally discussed using pieces of the Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle (what's on the back and sides) for its body, but the customer decided to stick with the more graphic quality of pearl against black.

The pearl is all hand cut, by the way.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
I'd say fill it all with black epoxy. Too many tight spots. It will look better if the black is consistent, rather than having ebony-to-filler transitions all over the place.
Author:  Greg B [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Yeah, I think all the transitions would be more noticeable than simply filling it with black. Maybe mix some ebony dust in with the epoxy also.

Hand cut eh? Great job. Also, very cool just to do a Thylacine. For an Aussie?
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Is there a black epoxy you guys recommend? Stewmac carries one, though it says wait three days before sanding. I'm not sure I have that much patience...


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Greg -- the concept came from the choice of Tas Tiger Myrtle for the back and sides. This set in particular does indeed look very tiger-like :ImageImage
There's also a reference in the 12th fret inlay:
Image
Thylacines differ from canines and felines in that they have five weight-bearing pads instead of four. Quite fascinating animals, really. I hope science brings them back.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  RNRoberts [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
For what it's worth, I've never been happy with black epoxy.

When I've inlayed into ebony I've been happiest with ebony dust and thin CA.

I would recommend leaving the ebony where you are wanting black between the stripes, belly, etc., you don't need to be all that meticulous. Make your ebony dust using a clean file, not sandpaper. Grind the dust down into the gaps between your pearl and the unrouted ebony. Drop thin CA a few drops at a time. Don't put a lot of CA at a time or it can boil due to the exothermic heat generated and then it createsa foam that forms a white area that you can't fix except by drilling it out. The ebony dust will settle and shrink, so grind more dust in ( I just use a finger), a little more CA, until the ebony/CA has built up a mound above the level of the peghead veneer. Then level it all down. If you then give the entire ebony veneer a wash coat of CA and then sand it down, you can't tell the difference between the ebony and the ebony/CA filler. The key is to hit the veneer with CA also. Then it all has the same hue. You can't tell where the ebony stops and the filled in dust/CA starts no matter what direction the light hits it at.


Take some of the scrap cutouts from your inlay and give it a try on some scrap ebony and see what you think.

I think the pictures below are pretty similar to what you are wanting to do.
Nice job on the teeth by the way.

(Oh, hand cut also <g>)
Author:  Jfurry [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
if you do the ebony you might want to screen it first.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Ken Jones wrote:
Is there a black epoxy you guys recommend? Stewmac carries one, though it says wait three days before sanding. I'm not sure I have that much patience...


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars


I have used the Stewmac two part black epoxy and sanded it in a couple of hours. Nice critter btw, how do you cook em? :mrgreen:
Author:  Greg B [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Ken Jones wrote:
Greg -- the concept came from the choice of Tas Tiger Myrtle for the back and sides. This set in particular does indeed look very tiger-like :
Thylacines differ from canines and felines in that they have five weight-bearing pads instead of four. Quite fascinating animals, really. I hope science brings them back.

Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars


Ah, gotcha. Tasmanian tiger theme guitar. That is indeed a very impressive and tiger-like set, and the guitar looks awesome too. :)

Yeah, I'm familiar with Thylacines, and their fascinating but sad story. Due to the recent date of their extinction, there does seem to be some hope of reviving the species. At least Tasmanian Devils are still around, and not just the Warner Bros version... ;)

It does look like RNRoberts' CA method got excellent results with a similar inlay. Perhaps try a couple ways on scrap?

I dye my own epoxy if I need it with aniline powder and/or lamp black. Usually just Smiths brand from a hobby shop.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
I would route it out leaving as much ebony in as you can. Then just proceed as RN says.

Beautiful work Ken and RN!!!
Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Thanks for everyone's input. I did a combination of leaving the largest black areas unrouted, inlaying the medium-sized areas with separate pieces, and filling all other voids with dust and CA. Came out great! I'm now considering it as a tattoo...ImageImage


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Breathtaking....!
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Looks great!
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Now that's a keeper!!! Well done
Author:  Greg B [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Well that turned out great. :D Love the teeth. Looks mean. ;)
Author:  George L [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Superb!
Author:  Michaeldc [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Very nice!!
Author:  Robert Lak [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Where? I see RN's Zebra but not Ken's... don't even see a broken picture box.... I'm not cine it...!
Author:  RogerC108 [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
Wow, both the zebra and the thyle... theyla...thila... tiger look great!

I do my inlays with epoxy that I tint myself using black vinyl ink I get from the screen print shop here at work. The only real downside I've come across is I sometimes get small bubbles that have to be filled in again, as you can see on the pic below.

Image

I basically rout out the entire cavity, use a dab of CA to glue in the pieces, then fill everything in with the epoxy.
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thylacine inlay advice needed
"The only real downside I've come across is I sometimes get small bubbles that have to be filled in again, as you can see on the pic below."

Don't mean to hijack but... Roger you may try warming your epoxy a little, this helps relieve any bubbles. At least I find it does.
Ken
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